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Before even discussing the policy, Smerconish attempted to smear Fishback by pointing to his connections with Trump and Vivek Ramaswamy—because in CNN’s world, supporting America First policies is a cardinal sin. But Fishback wasn’t about to be baited. He confidently laid out the plan, emphasizing that Americans deserve compensation for years of deception and financial abuse by the federal government.
Michael Smerconish: Okay, I’m all for ridding the government of waste, fraud, and abuse, but at some level, isn’t this all illusory? In other words, if there’s a savings made by Elon Musk and DOGE, we’re still $36 trillion in debt. There’s no pie to cut up, no slice of pizza that I can hand back to you—unless we continue to borrow those funds.
James Fishback: Our plan is really simple. Over the next couple of years, DOGE will save a set amount of money. We’re going to take 20% of that and put it right back in the hands of taxpayers. The other 80%, as President Trump has pointed out, will go toward paying down the debt and narrowing the deficit.
Fishback didn’t hold back, laying out the rampant fraud in Washington, from millions wasted on a “Rocky Sesame Street” to taxpayer-funded transgender operas in Colombia. Meanwhile, Americans are struggling. Roads are crumbling, suicide rates are skyrocketing, and Black fourth graders are failing to read at grade level. Instead of addressing these injustices, Smerconish stuck to CNN’s usual deflections.
When Fishback pointed out the real problem—the intentional mismanagement of taxpayer dollars—Smerconish responded with the laughable argument that funding “Sesame Street in Iraq” was a better alternative to eliminating terrorism. Fishback wasn’t having it.
Michael Smerconish: I gave you a chance for a great soundbite. Those soft power exercises make for great soundbites. But when you drill down, for example, on “Sesame Street in Iraq,” they often make sense. Joseph Nye from Harvard, who gets credited with coining the term “soft power,” argues that it’s better to spend on that than on bullets. But wait—you want to talk about the economics?
James Fishback: There was a terrorist attack in Iraq last month that killed 40 people. It’s clearly not working. Soft power and Sesame Street are not working. If there are terrorists, we need to kill the terrorists. We don’t need to fund Big Bird and Elmo.
With CNN’s arguments crumbling, Smerconish resorted to another tactic—suddenly pretending to care about the national debt. According to CNN, saving Americans’ tax dollars is somehow irresponsible, but sending endless cash to Ukraine and funding progressive pet projects is perfectly acceptable. Fishback called out the hypocrisy on the spot.
Michael Smerconish: If Elon Musk is successful in saving us money from waste, fraud, and abuse—and by the way, James, I hope that he is—I don’t like the approach, but I like the fact that something’s being done. Still, there is no money in the till. We owe $36 trillion.
James Fishback: My response is this: We should be paying the debt, which is why the DOGE Dividend incentivizes every American to call out waste, fraud, and abuse, to lower the budget, narrow the deficit, and bring down the debt.
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Where was this emergency over the debt when we sent $350 billion to Ukraine to be wasted? Where was this emergency, Michael, on CNN, when you guys were advocating for $7,000 a month per migrant in Chicago?
And now, suddenly, when President Trump wants to send $5,000 one time to hardworking Americans, it’s a problem? Migrants didn’t deserve $7,000 a month. Hardworking Americans deserve a $5,000 check with President Trump’s name on it. Enough with the double standard.
As Fishback continued dismantling the establishment’s corruption, Smerconish completely lost control. Flailing, he cut in, repeatedly interrupting, before finally threatening to cut the mic.
Michael Smerconish: Listen to me. Listen to me. This is a Ponzi scheme.
James Fishback: No, Ukraine was a Ponzi scheme. The migrant funding was a Ponzi scheme. Hardworking Americans deserve a break. It was their money, Michael. It was their money.
Michael Smerconish: James, give me a chance to speak. Theoretically, it’s my program. We don’t have the money is what I’m trying to tell you. It’s a Ponzi, Madoff-like—
James Fishback: We didn’t have the money for Ukraine, right? We didn’t have the money for Ukraine—$350 billion.
With no argument left, Smerconish finally threw in the towel, abruptly calling time on the interview. But not before Fishback delivered one final blow—reminding Americans that the DOGE Dividend isn’t some “handout.” It’s the people’s money, stolen by Washington, finally being returned.
James Fishback: Michael, let me say this: we’re fellow Americans. We care about this issue, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to come on this program, but I’ve got to speak truth here. At the end of the day, we’ve got to send the money back that is saved—just 20% of it.
The other 80% goes to paying down the national debt and narrowing the deficit. To your point, yes, there has been a fraud—a fraud against the American people: the Green New Deal scam, Ukraine, the migrant crisis.
Their taxpayer dollars were sent abroad, were not spent at home, were not spent in America—not on healthcare, not on education. That ends with President Trump’s leadership today. He is delivering on his promise of major government reform, Michael. The DOGE Dividend Plan is bold, and Americans support it.
Michael Smerconish: All right, I’m calling time on all of that. I appreciate your being here. I think we’ve each, I hope, made our respective points.
WATCH:
Another interview, another embarrassment for CNN. Fishback stood his ground, and Smerconish proved once again why the corporate media fears the truth.
